Humour we believe is the chlorophyll of life.
Back from yet another performance, to his office in Faridabad, Nitin Gupta (also known as Rivaldo), founder and Chief Entertainment Officer (CEO) of Entertainment Engineers, a stand-up comedy and theatre company, contemplated on his success. After graduating from IIT Bombay in 2007, he took up a job and for some time taught in a coaching institute. He even wrote for TV soaps before going head-on to take up stand-up comedy as his career.1
In October 2009, Gupta founded Entertainment Engineers, which in just two years has grown to perform more than 90 stand-up comedy acts at corporate venues, college festivals, alumni meets, private shows and the comedy store. Having established a very busy calendar for stand-up comedy, he thinks of the future plans of Entertainment Engineers—live city shows, advertisements, motivational seminars, DVD sales, entering into the film industry, recruiting more performers and developing Entertainment Engineers to compete in the global entertainment industry. ‘So what should be our next move?’, wonders Gupta.
‘Laughter is the best medicine.’
‘When laughter is shared, it binds people together and increases happiness and intimacy.’2 Charlie Chaplin’s silent films and the Mr Bean TV series became famous for their ability to make people laugh. From the case writers’ observation, comedy films, theatre plays, TV shows and live stand-up comedy acts, when witnessed by a larger audience, generate more humour and fun. Hence, people prefer to experience humour in greater numbers and so comedy shows (films, theatre plays, TV shows and stand-ups) generate a large audience.
Comedy film is a genre of film in which the sole emphasis is on humour. Comedy films are usually light-hearted stories with no major intent than to amuse the audience and make them laugh. There are many types of comedy films such as fish-out-of-water comedy (involving the main character in an unusual environment), for example, A Serious Man (2009); spoof (satire of classic films); black comedy (involving taboo subjects), for example, Burn After Reading (2008).3
TV comedy has the advantage of reaching out to a large number of people. The range of TV comedy is extremely broad and any type of comedy can be put before an audience through the TV. ‘The situation comedy, or sitcom, has been the most common, successful and culturally significant type of TV comedy.’4 One of the earliest forms of comedy, slapstick, consists of the fun involved in physical mishaps, usually in practical jokes and accidents, for example, MTV Bakra. Stand-up comedy has also been featured on TV in shows such as the Great Indian Laughter Challenge.5
Anurag Bedi, business head of Zee Café, says, ‘Indian audience is more inclined to comedy genre, and this can be justified with the fact that around 80 per cent of successful movies in our country belong to the comedy genre. Considering that as a driving factor, most of the comedy shows lined up during prime-time bands on Zee Café, Mike & Molly, The Big Bang Theory, Cougar Town, Californication etc. all bear witness to it’.6
In a stand-up comedy, the comedian (or comic) performs in front of a live audience, speaking directly to them. Stand-up comedy has the advantage of greater involvement of the comic with the audience. The comic communicates a series of humorous stories, jokes, poems and perceptions. The craft can be performed at any venue from parties to auditorium stages.
Stand-up comedians were very popular in ancient and medieval India. The comics were well-known for their witty, intelligent and jestful acts in the courts of Indian kings. ‘In modern era many artists have come up and become popular as stand-up comedians, often starting from stage/films and proceeding to TV shows.’7
STAND-UP COMEDY IN INDIA
The Great Indian Laughter Challenge
‘Considered the pioneer of true stand-up comedy on modern-day Indian TV, it was Laughter Challenge that tickled the audience’s interest in the genre.’8 The Great Indian Laughter Challenge is a very successful reality show on Indian TV. It is a competition of stand-up comedians presented on the TV channel, STAR One. ‘Laughter Challenge is a home-grown format that has found immense following in India with an unparalleled run for five years. The simplicity of the format—man, mike and a common man’s point of view—caught on big time’,9 says Deepak Dhar, Managing Director, Endemol India, the creators of Laughter Challenge.
Comedy Circus, a stand-up comedy show launched in 2007 on Sony Entertainment TV brings together India’s TV celebrities and professional comedian partners to perform on a highly humorous and challenging stage.
The Comedy Store, India’s first standalone comedy club opened up in Mumbai in January 2010. It is a three-floor club in the luxury shopping mall Palladium in Mumbai and has a new set of international comedians performing every week. Their acts are performed on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Professional stand-up comics perform regularly at the comedy store.
Live stand-up shows are performed in college festivals, wedding parties, comedy clubs and corporate venues. Stand-up comedy screened on TV has gained popularity with the success of shows such as The Great Indian Laughter Challenge and Comedy Circus.
ENTERTAINMENT ENGINEERS—HUMOUR BEINGS
The holding company of Entertainment Engineers is LSD Pvt. Ltd. Started in 2009 to provide ‘humour which also has an emotionality to it; humour which makes the audience laugh, think and feel at the same time’,10 Entertainment Engineers got its name because of the science involved in the art. The first play ‘Love in December’ written, directed by Gupta and performed at IIT Bombay was a hit and gained immense popularity among college students. It has gained more than 52,000 likes (52,107 on 25 December 2011).
The group started performing live stand-up comedy shows due to their economic and logistic feasibility. Gupta started with performances at college festivals, the first ones being in MNIT Jaipur, IIT Delhi and IIT Kharagpur. The group now performs live stand-up shows at college and corporate shows, alumni meets, private parties, TEDx talks and entrepreneurship summits.
Entertainment Engineers then started making short plays, the prominent ones being the silent film titled The Hungry Man of nine minutes duration, and the motivational film Lap of Life of 15 minutes duration.
The team has 13 members consisting of performers, the marketing team, Web content team and research team. One member manages the company accounts. The core performers are Nitin Gupta, who is the founder, Tushar Shah, who is a physician in Mumbai, a finalist in Great Indian Laughter Challenge-2 and Tushar Upadhyay, an alumnus of IIT Bombay. There are five budding comics who are working as interns. Most of the research work was done by the team and the college interns in the first year. There are also people working on a freelance/project basis.
Visibility for Entertainment Engineers is primarily through word of mouth. Based on the principle that a good service sells itself, the group does not spend on advertising in the TV or print media. There are no online ads as well.
Entertainment Engineers have their Web site http://www.humorbeings.in/ where content is updated regularly. It contains information about the group’s beliefs, the performers, the past shows and upcoming shows. It also contains a gallery of Entertainment Engineers’ plays, stand-up acts and short films. The company is active on its Facebook group http://www.facebook.com/groups/humorbeings/ to connect with their audience and to gain publicity. The group had 1,139 members as on 25 December 2011.
Performance videos are uploaded on YouTube and posted on the Entertainment Engineers’ page on Facebook for publicity and to spread word of mouth. The videos uploaded are mostly college concerts, which have a tendency to go viral online since the majority of social media users are college students. This also ensures that the content is not copied by other comics. Corporate videos are not uploaded because they have a much lesser tendency to spread rapidly on social media sites.
Gupta’s stand-up shows—Girl Science (75,098 hits on YouTube), Stupid Advertisements (65,836 hits) and his first play Love in December (52,229 hits on YouTube), which have spread widely in the social media—are all college concerts. Another stand-up comedy artist, Vipul Goyal’s performance at IIM Indore in November 2011, which generated 1,17,552 hits on Facebook, is a typical example of a video going viral on social media. An analysis of the stand-up videos of Gupta, Vipul Goyal and the performances at Comedy Store on YouTube showed that the videos were most popular among men of age group 25–34 years, followed by 18–24 years and then 35–44 years. The top viewers of these videos have always been men.
Gupta has personal accounts on Facebook and Twitter and is actively involved in posting witty comments and social messages. His note ‘The Curious Case of Rahul Gandhi’, a revelation in the backdrop of Indian politics, has raged like wildfire on social media and is featured on numerous sites and blogs.
Booking of Shows
Professional Entertainment Shows Team of College Festivals
The major market for Entertainment Engineers is live performance in college festivals. Once the college festival dates and the budget for the show is confirmed, a team dedicated to organizing professional entertainment shows looks out for potential performers. These teams contact artists for the live show on behalf of the college on every single occasion, access information about the performers in their database. New artists are added to the database as and when the team comes across them. The teams come across new artists by word of mouth, witnessing new shows or search on social media sites, blogs, YouTube, classifieds, and so on. One notable advantage of inviting a live stand-up comedian is the reduction in transportation and accommodation cost for the festival organizers—since only one performer, or two in certain cases, have to be invited—which thus increases the feasibility of the event (eliminating the need for professional sound equipment and sound checks).
Contacting Entertainment Engineers
Entertainment Engineers can be contacted and the shows can be booked using the ‘contact us’ form available on the site. For all types of concerts of Entertainment Engineers, there is a booking form available on the humorbeings.in Web page. Stand-up concerts can be performed in Hindi, English, Gujarati and/or a mixture of two languages. The client is required to specify all information including the date, number and type of audience, duration of concert and the topics that should not be touched (refer Exhibit 13.1).
The Booking Form
The first information that needs to be entered is the client’s name, e-mail address and phone number so that the organizers could be contacted back by Entertainment Engineers. The client then is required to give details about the venue (college/company), the type of comedy concert required (corporate concert, college festival concert, alumni meet, TEDx talk, wedding celebration or private party). The client could also specify other type and mention the type of event if it does not come under the listed standard types. The other fields in the form are ‘Which city would you like us to come to’, ‘Expected number of audiences in the concert’, ‘median age of the audiences’, ‘Who would we be entertaining?’ where information about the audience is given, to enable the performers to choose appropriate content, ‘Preferred duration of concert’ and topics that must not be taken up for the concert (religion). There are two optional fields ‘Is there anything else you would like to tell us? (Anything☺)’ and ‘How much do you like to negotiate? (So that the quotes could be sent accordingly☺)’ which is a unique about the Entertainment Engineers form. The smileys in the form bring out the light-mindedness and informal tone of the organization even prior to the stand-up concert.
Once contacted, the manager responds, confirming the availability of the performer on the required date and sending the quotation. The price quoted depends on per capita price (price per person) and the number of audience. The per capita cost is a function of the place and type of audience, the type of concert and show duration. It is higher for corporate shows and less for college shows. The number of audience for a typical college festival concert is 2,000 and for a corporate show it is around 150. The accommodation and transportation expenses are to be borne by the client. Hence the costs involved in putting up a show are the performers’ cost, the transportation cost and accommodation cost.
The revenue of Entertainment Engineers, consisting of the performers’ cost is shared between the performers. From the case writers’ observation live shows in college festivals help to generate greater online publicity, which is the primary mode for spreading information.
In events supported by travel sponsors, the organizers usually book the travel tickets. There are instances where Entertainment Engineers book their tickets and are reimbursed for them. The process is flexible.
Negotiation and Booking
Negotiations are then held and if a price favourable to both parties is agreed upon, the dates are reserved. The process includes a pre-payment to block the dates. The remaining payment is secured at the venue prior to performing the show. If two organizations contact the team for booking a show on the same date, the one contacting first is given priority.
Two years since its inception, the college festival performances are now performed only through invitation. Corporate shows are booked either directly by the corporate or through event management companies, which act as intermediates between the company and the performers. Entertainment Engineers has performed 13 college shows in its first year, 60 shows in its second year and there are 100 shows scheduled for their fourth year (refer Exhibit 13.2).
The Stand-up Comedy Market
Listed in the Entertainment Engineers’ database are more than 1,500 colleges. The major colleges have two festivals—one cultural and one technical. Some colleges have one combined cultural and technical festival.
The market of stand-up acts is limited to the live audience witnessing a show, that is, approximately 150 people for a corporate show and 2,000 people in a college festival concert. Hence, even with all the stand-up comics performing frequent shows, the audience consists of a very small section of the nation’s population of 1.21 billion people. A hypothetical case of 100 performers (Wikipedia identifies only 23 professional stand-up artists in India) performing 200 shows a year to an average audience of 1,000 per show has a market of 20 million people, a mere 1.65 per cent of the nation’s population.
Customer retention is another threat to live stand-up comics. The organizers of a show (especially a college show) prefer to have a completely different kind of show the next year and try to rotate the comics at the very least. Hence, the possibility for a comic performing a second show at the same venue reduces. An exceptionally good review from the audience increases the possibility of corporate invites, once the witnessing college audience join the corporate world.
Customization of Show
Customization of the act based on feedback received from the audience is one of the elements, which determines the success of a stand-up show. Entertainment Engineers’ show content is customized based on geography, educational background, median age of the audience, sex ratio, language preference, religious tolerance, political sensitivity and general exposure. This information is provided by the organizers in the booking form while contacting Entertainment Engineers for the first time. Organizers also check into the FAQ section on the Web site to get more familiarized (refer Exhibit 13.3). Some of the parameters required to finalize the content are very hard to judge, and intuitive choices have to be made.
Prateek Agarwal, a member of the hospitality team, TEDx Trichy, held at NIT-Trichy says, ‘I accompanied Gupta aka Rivaldo to college when he arrived in Trichy the day of the TEDx event. After having breakfast at the college canteen, “Buhari”, I, accompanied by two members of the hospitality team took him around the campus. All through my time with Rivaldo, he kept finding out things about our life in the campus, the rules, nature of the professors, among other things. He even connected with everyone he met during lunch. I was surprised to see that most of the jokes during his stand-up show were based on NIT-Trichy. One of the most humorous jokes was when Rivaldo mentioned during his performance “I was told by the organizers that most of your professors are innocent and I must not take up double meaning jokes. I asked them back, if your professors understand double meaning jokes, they are surely not innocent and if they do not understand double meaning jokes, there is no harm in performing them anyway.” I am happy he stopped with that and didn’t take up any double meaning joke during the show’.11
Srilakshmi, a student of NIT-Trichy who witnessed TEDx Trichy says, ‘I have probably never laughed so much in my life. The best one was when he talked he was like “You students are the ones who are innocent. I heard of a professor who smashes phones. Back at my place, if any professor smashed a phone, the students will smash the professor”’.12
College concerts differ from corporates. The content for the young and restless college audience is aggressive and on the face. The delivery pace is high in case of a college concert. Corporate audience is subtle and the talk is about gentler things, like few minor observations. Controversial topics are never taken up while performing for the corporate audience, most of whom are in their 30s and 40s.
Gupta, who graduated out of IIT Bombay in 2007, can relate well to college life and is the favourite among engineering college students. Stand-up comics do not face real competition from the existing comics as most comics get to perform at comedy platforms like Comedy Store and because the same artists are not usually called at the same college festivals the next year because college students crave for a different experience. Upcoming comics could pose a serious competition to Entertainment Engineers in college performances since they would be more equipped to talk about the trendy and happening events in the society. For example, Vipul Goyal whose performance video on Facebook has gained more than 1,17,000 hits already.
Gupta has grown to his current position in just two years, performing more than 90 professional stand-up shows in college festivals of the leading colleges including the IITs and NITs, corporate venues, alumni meets and the Comedy Store. He has been featured on CNBC India, Channel V and Hindustan Times. His high popularity in such a short span of time is probably the reason Wikipedia has failed to identify him as one among the 23 stand-up comics of India.
While Gupta might be the most famous English stand-up comic in colleges, Kumar Vishwas, a renowned Hindi poet from Uttar Pradesh, known for his kavi sammelans (formal or informal gathering of poets), is a more popular Hindi poet and stand-up comic. New comics like Vipul Goyal now compete with Entertainment Engineers in the live shows market. The corporate field is open and almost all stand-up comics perform for corporate audiences, the famous ones for English stand-up acts being Papa CJ and Vir Das.
Posing a key competition to Entertainment Engineers,Vipul Goyal, an electrical engineering graduate from IIT Bombay and former member of Entertainment Engineers started a venture, Humorously yours (http://humorouslyyours.com/) in September 2011. With his performance in IIM Indore going viral on Facebook, generating 1,17,552 hits on YouTube, Vipul Goyal is one of the fastest growing comics of today. Rejecting offers from TV shows such as Laughter Challenge, Vipul chose to go viral on social media instead. He has been featured on the Hindu Business Line. He has performed more than 70 live stand-up shows consisting of college performances, corporate concerts, Comedy Store performances and private parties. Vipul is also working on two comedy films, which have completed the scripting stage. He performed his first live city show at the Hyderabad comedy fest, which was a fund-raising event. Vipul is excited about his second live city show in February 2012 at Vadodara, Gujarat.
Keeping his options open and working on his stand-up comedy to build his brand, Vipul is looking forward to taking up other forms of comedy like selling DVDs of his shows, making movies and hosting TV shows.
Vir Das is the founder of Weirdass Comedy, India’s first and only comedy consultancy. As the Web site proclaims, Weirdass is a one-stop shop for your comedy needs across media. Vir Das performed improvisational comedy on SAB TV’s ‘Lo Kal Lo Baat’. He was also an addition to the cast of ‘The Great Indian Comedy Show’ on Star One. Vir Das is the host of ‘News on the Loose’, his own news comedy show on CNBC.
The Indian Express has called him ‘a comedian to watch out for’ and ‘India’s answer to Jay Leno’. Hindustan Times calls him ‘simply hysterical’. Delhi Times has listed him as one of Delhi’s top 10 dream men. The Pioneer has called him ‘The Funniest Kid in India’. Verve has called him ‘India’s only true comic’.13
Papa CJ is another stand-up comedian from India, with over 1,000 professional shows to his credit. He is widely recognized as the global face of cutting-edge Indian stand-up comedy who represented the country on Last Comic Standing on NBC in 2008. From the thousands of comedians who took part, he was ranked as one among the top 10 artists in the world.14
In October 2011, he taped a Showtime USA Stand-up Comedy Special with Russell Peters in Amsterdam. Papa CJ’s TV credits include shows on various channels such as Comedy Central, BBC, The Comedy Channel and MTV.15
‘Papa CJ has been employed by clients in multiple roles including performing stand-up comedy live for TV, as an emcee and compere for corporate events, as a host and presenter for high profile award ceremonies, as a warm up act for TV shows, as an auctioneer at charity events and as a performer and host at large weddings and other private functions.’16
Raju Srivastav is a popular observational comedian. He is best known for his acute scrutiny and comical timing about various aspects of Indian life.
‘His big break, however, was the comedy talent show ‘The Great Indian Laughter Challenge’. He finished as second runner-up and then took part in the spin-off ‘The Great Indian Laughter Challenge—Champions’, in which he won the title ‘The King of Comedy’. After that, he was noticed by many film-makers and got regular assignments in movies with bigger roles. Srivastav has done stage shows with Kalyanji Anand, Bappi Lahiri and Nitin Mukesh in India and abroad. He has been an avid supporter of good comedy and has criticized vulgarity. In such a short span, he is considered as one of the best comedian in the country who is liked by the masses.’17
Theatre and stand-up comedy are not the only plans on Nitin Gupta’s mind. His future plans include making advertisements, a small budget film called The Guy Next Door, perform live city shows, hold motivational seminars, start DVD sales and perform in stand-up concerts overseas. He refused many offers from Bollywood to make a movie on the cult play Love in December. He is confident about Entertainment Engineers’ ability to make it their home production. Among other plans, Entertainment Engineers hopes of making 4-minute comedy clips in association with Comedy Central when it approaches India. It seems the time has come for the stand-up comedy artists to get Indian audiences’ serious attention!
- ‘Curious case of Nitin Gupta (Rivaldo)—Background’, iitstories.com, http://www.iitstories.com/2011/07/21/curious-case-of-nitin-gupta-rivaldo/, accessed 27 December 2011
- helpguide.org article, http://www.helpguide.org/life/humor_laughter_health.htm, accessed 27 December 2011.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comedy_film, accessed 27 December 2011.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_comedy, accessed 27 December 2011.
- The Great Indian Laughter Challenge is a very successful reality show on Indian television. It is a competition of stand-up comedians presented on the TV channel, STAR One.
- http://www.dnaindia.com/entertainment/report_tv-going-back-to-comedy-shows-and-funny-family-dramas_1590501, accessed 25 December 2011.
- ‘Stand-up comedy in India’, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standup_comedy, accessed 27 December 2011.
- http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100312/jsp/entertainment/story_12205585.jsp, accessed 27 December 2011.
- http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100312/jsp/entertainment/story_12205585.jsp, accessed 27 December 2011.
- ‘Our Mission’, http://www.humorbeings.in/aboutus.html, accessed 20 December 2011.
- Interview with Prateek Agarwal, 26 December 2011.
- Personal experience of Srilakshmi Shunmugaraj.
- Wikipedia article on Vir Das, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vir_Das, accessed 25 December 2011.
- Papa CJ’s Web site, http://www.papacj.com/biog.htm, accessed 22 December 2011.
- Wikipedia article on Papa CJ, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_CJ
- Papa CJ’s Web site, http://www.papacj.com/biog.htm
Exhibit 13.1 Comedy Concert—Booking Information Form
Exhibit 13.2 Past Shows of Entertainment Engineers by Category
Exhibit 13.3 FAQs on Entertainment Engineers
Why Entertainment Engineers?
There are two ways of looking at it. One literal meaning is of course engineers in entertainment domain. The actual reason why we called the company so was because of the inherent nature of science and entertainment in general.
What is the concept of Entertainment Engineers?
We believe comedy is both an art and a science. So Entertainment Engineers 🙂 It is an art because not every science guy can do it. And it is science because every art guy cannot do it.
What is your aim in forming the Entertainment Engineers?
- To make stand-up comedy respectable in India.
- To take English stand-up comedy to the mainstream.
Where all have you performed?
We have performed at major cultural and technical campus festivals across the country. IITs, NITs and IIMs. Alumni meets, corporate gigs for Bosch, Jaipur, Numark, United Kingdom among a few. Apart from that we have had the pleasure of performing at about a dozen TEDx-es.
Do you only perform in college campuses?
Not really. We have done lot of independent events and some corporate shows as well. Since we started out with campuses, that percentage seems higher at the moment. However, with time we see the numbers balancing.
So what are the offerings from Entertainment Engineers?
We offer customized stand-up comedy concerts. Like a show for ICICI Bank would differ in content from a show in a Microsoft. To give you an idea, the earlier would have content around markets, exchange rates, taxes and financial euphemisms and in Microsoft we would be talking about Apple and Google 🙂 Likewise, content for an engineering campus is different from content for a management school.
Why customize content. Should not comedy be universal?
Comedy as a concept is universal. What appeals to different people might vary. Like food as a concept to cure hunger is universal. But one cuisine does not suit all. In Hyderabad, it is chicken Hyderabadi, in Lahore it is chicken Lahori. Basic meat is the same. But we changed the gravy and the preparation to suit the taste. It is very much like, ‘when in Rome, do as the Romans do’. So we like to customize content based on geography, educational background, median age of the audience, sex ratio, language preference, religious tolerance, political sensitivity and general exposure. Some of which parameters are very hard to judge, so you make some intuitive choices and we love that challenge.
Who are your target audience?
Everybody who shares our thoughts and point of view is our audience. Everybody who does not share our point of view and does not find us funny is our target audience. Humour we believe is the only way of saying the truth. Now because of our cultural and religious conditioning, all of us are prejudiced about one or the other thing to various degrees. The challenge is in penetrating through those mental constructs and create some constructive interference in people’s mind. Thats the real challenge. It is easier in certain topics, can be really tricky in constructs such as religion. Thanks to our defence mechanisms. But that is what drives us. We would like to shake things up a little.
What is the USP of Entertainment Engineers? How do they stand out from regular comedians and comedy shows?
We do not do comedy to make people laugh. May be that is our USP.
Science and entertainment are sort of polar extremes. Why the switch?
It is funny but we do not find much of a difference between science and entertainment. Curiosity is what led to the explosion in our understanding of the universe, from discovery of an atom to the nature of space time. From evolution of species to the man-made marvels like the airplanes and nuclear energy and the Internet. And curiosity is what led to creation even in the entertainment arena. Curiosity triggers our imagination, and creativity, as I think of it, is nothing but imagination crystallizing in the form of music, architecture, understanding of physical laws, elegant mathematical truths or stand-up comedy or entertainment in general. So curiosity is like the antenna, and the various art forms are mere different channels of expression. It just a matter of what frequency you are tuned to, depending on your personality, natural inclination and opportunities. That’s why science and entertainment look different but are similar on a basic level of genesis. To sum up: Science is mad about reason. Humour is reason gone mad.
Your future plans?
There are many actually. The immediate one is to get into advertising.
Do I need to be an engineer to join the company as a performer/business developer/in other capacity?
No, educational qualifications is not a criterion. Engineer in the company name is a metaphor. We are open to everyone.
I would like to be a part of the group. But I don’t know if I am good enough, yet?
It does not matter. We bet on potential, not present. So, If you like entertaining (in whatever capacity), please feel free to contact us. We are looking for people, who would really really like to do it. Rest everything, we believe, eventually falls into place.